I still feel it’s wrong to hint or say that some aren’t saved because they don’t heal. Real Christians have other ways of knowing that they’re saved, and if there were any perfect people in the flesh, we wouldn’t have needed Jesus to begin with. It’s up to the Spirit to judge, and real Christians do start recognizing the spirit at some point in their growth.

I know about love offerings, but why ask for round trip airfare, western-style hotel, etc..etc.. when God knows the evangelists’ NEEDS and will most definitely provide for them one way or another even if he has to make bread fall out of the sky?

You have some pretty good answers, just one really important question was missed. Since the Elijah Challenge is supposed to be learned from the Bible (which is text), then why is it that it can’t be taught online, or by a book? or why can’t I find a complete presentation on it anywhere? I honestly would like to check this out, but I don’t see why someone has to make a trip out here just for me, or me go there for it to be done. On the superstar note, if Pastor William has to go everywhere himself to teach this, then it’s still the same thing. If not, then great!

I know most Christians are missing out on a great potential within as far as miracles and healing goes. Personally, I’ve experienced 2 miracles just this week. Sorry if I’ve offended you- I’m trying to get to the root of this, and as with everything else I’ve been researching this past year, a person definitely has to try the spirits with absolutely everything. Satan’s got this giant spiderweb that he’s been knitting ever since Isaiah 14:12-17 or Luke 10:18 it seems.. Christians even have Idols in their churches that they pledge allegiance too. (I have a hard time picturing Daniel saying the pledge to a flag rather than God) There’s always something good mixed into satan’s traps to get us to fall into them, and the devil knows scripture just as good as anybody.

I have looked at the main website, and I feel that if this comes from God, then some of the things I’ve spoke of should be corrected. Evil always goes on about money and possessions, so alot of people might miss out on something good because of this stuff.

Thanks for your time
~Rob

1. This approach means that we do not get invited back (Unlike Superstar healing preachers). After training, the believers in the church can organize their own evangelistic healing rallies. They have no need for us to come at all. Thus this means that we the trainers actually work ourselves out of a job… and that is our purpose.

2. If you were to check our websites, you will notice that we train believers from all types of churches. Big or small is not important. As long as the believers learn how to share the Gospel without fear of exercising their faith to show the pre-Christians the power of God and share the Gospel.

3. Like all preachers, we receive a love offering after we train or preach. In third world countries, we seldom receive love offerings and we have to pay our own fares and expenses. We live simply so that others might simply live.

4. To be fair to us, please do not include us with all the other ’superstar’ preachers who have the gift of healing. You will notice that during any Elijah Challenge rallies, the local Christians are the ones doing the healing. Benny Hinn never does that. He is the superstar and we are definitely not ’superstars’.

5. We only train the local believers and they are the ones who do the healing in the name of Jesus. We do not believe in a so-called “special anointing” on some individuals. We believe that the anointing is on the Body of Christ – all the believers in the Church of Jesus Christ.

6. We do not claim to have the gift of healing. We only know that Jesus has given His Church the authority and power to heal and preach the Gospel. When we point this out, believers who exercise their faith, would actually heal the sick in the name of Jesus.

7. Do all people get saved when you share the Gospel? No, not all. By expecting people to be saved, do you violate the sovereignty of God? No! In the same way, not all people get healed or saved when the trained believers minister. The key word is ‘obedience’.

We have to share the Gospel and people from other faiths will challenge our faith. However, when we heal the person in the name of Jesus, we actually earn the rights to share the Gospel with the healed person.

When the disciples of Christ could not heal the demon-possesed boy, Jesus said, “Because of your little faith. For truly I tell you, if you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.”(Matthew 17:19-20)

We trust that as we learn to exercise our faith, we will be able to move ‘mountains.

8. Having said that, please understand that the purpose of the miracles is to share the Gospel. That is the reason why in the Book of Acts, the Church continues to heal and share the Gospel.

9. In the New Testament, after every miracle, the glory is given to Jesus our Lord and the end-result is salvation of souls.

10. We understand why you are skeptical about these miracles. However, before you experience them, try not to assign them to the work of the devil. If these miracles are from God, then wouldn’t you have committed the sin of blasphemy by doing so?

Everyone has the gifts of the spirit, but each one has a strong point, and mine is the spirit of truth. I’m not really buying this. I would attend a seminar if one were local, but I don’t see any reason to support anyone that is after their own money and glory. It just doesn’t seem right.

The other thing that bothers me is the money issue and the extravagant demands to learn this stuff. The Bible plainly says there will be many false prophets doing great miracles and that you’ll know them by their fruits. It also says that money is the root of all evil, and I see it everywhere in the world today. There are several preachers on the TV that use the “Horned Hand” sign, and constantly talk about how God will give you a bunch of money. It’s false, and setting people up for a big disappointment. If this teaching is from God, then why can’t you just put the material on the website for people to learn themselves for free?! If you supposedly learned this from the Bible, then you should be able to type up something.

Last thing I’m concerned about, is that in the videos- I don’t see anything being done! I see a bunch of people worshiping, and then it tells us that some people were healed, yet I don’t see any healing taking place. I hafta agree with teetwoh, on all of this, but it’s really more simple than all of the good points he brings up. This really sounds alot like Benny Hinn.

We see things differently where race and religion are concern because it was never the main issue being politicised.

We see each other as fellow human being FIRST.

2. When the rich man was burning in hell and asked God to send either the beggar or a prophet back to his relatives to warn them – saying this will be more convincing – God said everyone has enough warning already. Again, the death and resurrection of Jesus is sufficient message, or don’t we have faith that it is?

3. Luke 9 and 10 was intended for the 12 and 72 and it was to authenticate. There is nothing in those passages to suggest it is a general instruction for everyone.
4. Does it mean once we are taught to exercise the authority to heal, healing will follow as a matter of course? Where is the sovereignty of God then? Can God choose not to heal under these circumstances – ie even when we exercise the authority?

5. Will healing meetings be willing to engage an independent medical doctor to verify a before and after scenario? So many purported healings turn out to be untrue I think we need this element. John Wimber himself acknowledged he could not heal many diseases, including (especially) diseases not subject o psychosomatic causes. I myself have seen purported healing which “relapsed” in a hurry. Jesus and his disciples never had such success rate (or lack of it).

Get an independent doctor in The Elijah Challenge meetings?

6. Experience must be validated by truth as taught in the scriptures. If we choose to read scriptures through certain screens, experiences can be validated as one chooses. Buddhism has claimed many healings too. Does this validate Buddhism as a way to God? Jesus death and resurrection alone is sufficient.

7. I am not missing out on anything. I have the fullness of Christ and the Spirit dwelling in me because He has promised me He would. You and I would not be disease free for the rest of our lives. But we will be forgiven and reconciled with God as long we continue to believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus and live a life of obedience.

8. If the difference between a “compromised gospel” and an “uncompromised gospel” is in the holiness and character of Jesus, then why resort to healing? Where is the place of healing in bridging this gap? If it doesn’t, why resort to this as an element of evangelism? Shouldn’t we instead be emphasising on being holy in and through Jesus so that God may accept us back into His fold?

The good old concept of repentance comes to mind.

9. John 14 is about Jesus instructions of God’s plans for the world to be reconciled to Him through Jesus. His disciples will progress that work – the work of sharing Jesus as the way to God. His disciples would do that in a much greater scale – greater things. That is the context. (As read by a lowly lay person of course).

10. So what is the connection between the Mt Carmel incident and a healing rally again? Isn’t the death and resurrection of Jesus in itself the power of God for salvation? Didn’t Paul say this – was it in Romans? Possibly in many epistles as well? Again, this is as read by a lowly lay person.

11. If a compromised gospel relates not to healing (or any signs and wonders) but on a lack of holiness and character of Jesus, then that is what gospel rallies should have. Repentance and obedience is what Jesus was all about. That is more important – eminently so – than healing.

12. The Great Commission is about preaching Jesus’ death and resurrection so that people may give their lives to God – as understood by a lowly lay person. It wasn’t to make healers – or authority claimers.

13. Effective preaching doesn’t require healing. It requires the Word of God and the Spirit to convict.

I don’t recall Billy Graham doing much healing. I think he was pretty effective. As was may other evangelists before the advent of Pentecostalism.

14. We shouldn’t be at pains to read scriptures in a way to fit our propensity for certain modes of preaching or practice. If the plain reading of the text doesn’t admit that interpretation, chances are that interpretation wasn’t available. We should then not be afraid to trust that the death and resurrection of Jesus alone is sufficient to bring men and women back to God. Of course, and again – this is from a lowly lay person.

I agree with William on this – this has probably taken up more time and space than it deserves. I will close this thread/comments whatever the last word is sometime this weekend.

God bless,
Pastor Albert
—————–

Ian’s understanding on what we are teaching is inaccurate. He has misunderstood us. Below are some clarifications

Here there is fundamental misunderstanding. The “compromised gospel” I am referring to is the failure of the Church to teach believers not only to believe on Jesus, but to obey His commands.

First and foremost, we must be like Jesus in his character and holiness. Many Christians lack holiness. And without holiness, no one will see the Lord. Not a few in the Church teach that the moment we repeat a sinner’s prayer, we have a guaranteed one-way ticket to heaven regardless of what we do or how we live the rest of our lives on earth as long—as we “truly believe.”

This comprises most of the compromised gospel to which we are referring. This false gospel is also called the gospel of “cheap grace” and “easy believism.”

Most of the Church also encourages believers to concentrate on what God can do for us on earth and how to receive His blessings, and not on what we should do for Him on earth to fulfill the Great Commission. Although this is a grievous state of affairs, it is essentially not the false gospel to which we refer.

The Church must be active in obeying the Great Commission given to us by the Lord. Part of the Great Commission is healing the sick and proclaiming the kingdom of God. Our job is to encourage and equip believers to share the gospel more effectively by teaching them to heal the sick as Jesus taught and commanded his disciples.

We are not saying that if believers are not healing the sick, that they are not saved. But we are teaching believers to serve the Lord more scripturally and fruitfully.

The compromised gospel I am referring to does not include the failure to teach believers how to heal the sick as Jesus commanded his disciples when he sent them out to proclaim the kingdom of God.

e. So we should receive an uncompromised gospel by doing what Jesus did.

Again, it should be clear from what I wrote above that I am not saying that by doing what Jesus did, we have received an uncompromised gospel. Rather I am saying that by doing what Jesus did, we are fulfilling his words in John 14:12 and becoming more effective witnesses for him.

John 14:12 I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing.

f. This to William is the Elijah Challenge. We must repent for
believing in a compromised gospel (ie Baal) and must receive an uncompromised gospel (ie God)

Again, what Ian wrote above is not The Elijah Challenge. Included in The Elijah Challenge is challenging the false prophets and false Christs which have arisen in Christianity during these last days (Matthew 24:4-26 & Matthew 7:15-23).

Some of these will perform false signs and wonders and deceive many. Certain circles of the Church need to repent from following these false prophets. But the greater emphasis of The Elijah Challenge at this time is to demonstrate to Buddhists, Hindus, and Muslims through miraculous healings that our God is the only true God and that Jesus is the only way to Him.

g. The key is to do what Jesus did – ie healing, signs and wonders

Again, this is not what we are teaching. Although we do teach disciples to do what Jesus did in terms of healing the sick—because that is what the Lord has entrusted to us to do—we certainly do not teach that it is THE key.

More important is to be holy as Jesus is Holy. More important is the message of the gospel. Healing the sick is but a tool the Lord has graciously given to us to confirm the great message of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

h. So we must be taught how to heal, because Jesus commanded us to do it as we proclaim the kingdom of God to the lost. Jesus did command his disciples:

Matthew 28.19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

What—among other things—did Jesus command his disciples? He commanded them to “heal the sick, and tell them, ‘the kingdom of God is near you.’” (Luke 10:9)

Therefore if we believe that the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-10) is for us today, we must among other important things—teach disciples today to
obey Jesus’ command to heal the sick and proclaim the kingdom of God as He commanded his disciples. Jesus said to teach them everything I have commanded you—which includes healing the sick and preaching the gospel.

i. When we do, we can do what Jesus did and therefore return
to an uncompromised gospel

Again, Ian misunderstands what I mean by a compromised gospel.

j. Then we can effectively preach the gospel

I am not saying that we cannot preach the gospel effectively without healing the sick and casting out demons. But I am saying that we can likely preach the gospel more effectively when we heal the sick and cast out demons as Jesus commanded his disciples. This is especially true when preaching to the gospel to non-Christian people groups like Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus and those who practice witchcraft. I have had quite a bit of experience in these areas.

If you think the above accurately reflects what he wrote, do you have
a problem with it – ie do you see any flaws in this?

What Ian wrote above does not accurately reflect what I think and teach. Perhaps my writing was deficient and unclear in some ways, thus causing Ian unfortunately to misunderstand. For that I certainly apologize, and will make an effort to write more clearly in the future!

I think I have spent enough time dealing with Ian’s objections. Thank you for your kind patience with us in this matter.

Please feel free to forward this message to the leadership if you feel it is needed.

—Pastor William

Thank you for your email.

First and foremost please know that I do not represent Pastor William and I trust that he will give you his answers when I forward your email to him. If he is busy then you may have to catch him at the seminar.

Second, I do not know if I can answer all your questions but here are my opinions and they are mine alone

1. The Mt Carmel incident is used as an example of how the faith of the people can be encouraged by the miracle they see. Personally, I find it easier to share the Gospel after the person is miraculously healed in the name of Jesus.

Therefore, in the context of evangelism, it would be a lot easier to convince the Pre-Christians by healing them in the name of Jesus than to argue or debate with them about which belief systems or religions are better.

2. Luke 9 and 10 do apply to the modern disciples. It is not a one-time instruction because if it is, then we will not be able to exercise the same authority and power to heal the sick today.

Any way, Luke who writes about Christ as the Man of the Spirit and what He does in the Gospel, also writes about the Christians as the Church of the Spirit.

The miracles that happen in the Gospel through Jesus and the Disciples continue to happen in the Book of Acts through the Disciples and other new disciples.

Today, it is not just the didactic portions but the narratives are also considered as part of the normative theology.

In our seminars, we explain quite clearly as to the continuity of this specific instruction of Christ and how it is still relevant for us today to share about the kingdom of God by revealing the power of God to heal the infirm.

At the conclusion of the each session, we will also demonstrate this authority and power to heal. That cannot be fabricated or faked. Either God is going to honour our faith and heal the infirm or nothing will happen.

Oh, btw, you must have read that the ‘authority to heal’ is different from the ‘gift of healing’.

We are NOT teaching about the Gift of Healing.

In the New Testament, the Disciples of Christ share the Gospel with signs and wonders.This is not only mentioned in the bible but in early church history.

Why attend a seminar that you feel that it lacks coherency and cogency?

Well, I can only say that until you listen to all of our theological premises and experience the tangible miracles that happen in the seminar and rally, how are you going to really know?

For 21 years of my ministry, I experienced no more than ten miracles.

Yes, I spent years and earned my Master of Divinity from an AG seminary.I believed in miracles but it was just that miracles seldom happened in my ministry.

You see, I did not realize that the “Gift of Healing” was different from the “Authority to Heal”. The former was given after Pentecost while the latter was obviously even before the Paraclete was given.

Like you, I was reluctant to attend. Was I wrong for 21 years as a minister? At that time (2005), my argument was that since I did not have the gift of healing then all these healing training stuffs were not meant for me.

How could any one teach me how to heal? This was just not possible. My wife was the one who encouraged me to attend and like I said, I did it reluctantly.

The place was stuffy and crowded. I told myself that I had made a mistake in coming. However, when Pastor William went through the session, verse by verse – you know what went through my mind – well, I could fight his theology but I could not fight the scriptural verses because they were not randomly pulled out. Every portion was explained within its context.

Since then, I have experienced and seen literally thousands of healing miracles. Yes, they never taught us how to heal the infirm in Bible Seminary. There are certain exegetical and hermeneutics rules that I have to re-evaluate too. But seeing how the Lord heals so many and saves the lost is indeed priceless.

I encourage you to at least attend one evening and listen to what Pastor William got to say. Apparently, you are theologically grounded and you should definitely have no fear of being led astray.

After attending and if you still feel that we are irrelevant and wrong, then you will have a very strong case. You would be able to tell others that you have attended, listened and found us to be hopelessly wrong and that you have been right all along.

That was what I did with the ‘Da Vinci Code’ before I preached against it in my church. I read and understood it thoroughly so that I could be honest to myself that I was right and Dan Brown was wrong. Then when I taught my church, my conscience was clear.

What if you were wrong? What if in your own persistent way, you miss out on what God has intended for you? Therefore, most importantly, if you do attend, do it for yourself and the people you are guiding or leading.

Once again, thank you for writing and for reading.

God bless,

In Christ alone,
Pastor Albert
Coordinator
Elijah Challenge Asia

1. What then is the relevance of the Mt Carmel incident to a healing rally?

2. What is the basis for saying Luke 9 (and 10?) applies to all Christian when the context clearly suggests it was Jesus’ instructions to his disciples at that time?

3. What then is the difference between an uncompromised gospel and a compromised gospel? If it is discipleship, then does healing make up that elemement of discipleship? Otherwise, why resort to healing as an element? If healing is based on a normative interpretation of Luke 9 then again, what is the relevance of the Mt Carmel incident?

4.Would William Lau or you care to then clarify the inaccuracy you refer to, because the above is based on a May 2009 article by William downloaded from the website?

5. Scripture must be used in context and rigorously applied. A proliferation of scripture references alone doesnt render something right or accurate.

6. Why attend a seminar based on an introductory article which (to me) lacks coherence or cogency?

There must be consistency. If the seminar is other than what the May 2009 article suggests, either the seminar or the article is inaccurate. Until either is corrected, I have to politely decline participation.